Transcript: CNN’s State of the Union

February 7, 2029

Jake Tapper: Madam Secretary, it’s been a wild few weeks since you were confirmed as President Ocasio-Cortez’s secretary of education.

Secretary of Education Rachel Maddow: It sure has, Jake. I mean, I wake up each day and think, “Wow! I’m working for President AOC!!” I’m still getting used to it.

Tapper: Many have wondered what prompted you to take this role.

Maddow: Well, Pete Hegseth showed there’s more room for cable TV personalities in the cabinet than we might have thought. And when the president-elect pitched to me how much we could accomplish by embracing the Trump administration’s precedents, I was sold.

Tapper: What precedents do you have in mind?

Maddow: How long do you have? There’s revamping civil rights enforcement, terminating bad grants and contracts, and so much more. Five years ago, we thought Biden was bold for forgiving student debt. But now we see how much more is possible.

Tapper: You’ve already cut a slew of research and contracts. What are you cutting?

Maddow: Things that don’t align with the president’s priorities. Those NAEP reading and math tests, which seem designed to embarrass public schools and demean minority students? Gone. The so-called “science of reading” and similar attacks on our beloved educators? No more. Those NSF and DOD grants for research on defense weaponry and nuclear power? Buh-bye.

Tapper: What’s the goal here?

Maddow: You used to hear Trump’s team say they were running the Obama-Biden playbook in reverse. Think of this as the Trump playbook in overdrive. Trump issued executive orders banning DEI. Well, those can be wiped out with the same stroke of a pen. President AOC’s Day 1 order did that, of course, and then required that every college adopt DEI programming to comply with Title VI. Otherwise, in the opinion of the Department of Justice, they’re violating civil rights law. Trump’s team showed that’s grounds for freezing federal funds, demanding big changes, and going after accreditation. Colleges better get with the program or they’re going to be in a world of hurt.

Tapper: Can you do that?!

Maddow: Don’t you remember four years ago? We’ve notified the University of Alabama, Ole Miss, LSU, and Ohio State that we’re going to freeze their federal research funding for their violations of Title VI and Title IX. These football factories are engines of misogyny, sexism, institutional racism, and sexual assault. If they want to get those funds unfrozen, they’d better get cracking. Oh, and part of demonstrating remorse is that they’ll each need to pony up a fine of $220 million. Obviously, our model here is the 2025 Columbia deal.

Tapper: Wow. It’s tough to be a red-state flagship in 2029.

Maddow: What can I say? We’ve notified the Texas state system that we’re deeply troubled by their quote-unquote “colorblind” approach which, thanks to the president’s EO, is a bright-line violation of civil rights law. We want to see reconstituted DEI offices up and running in 90 days. We expect new classes on systemic racism and intersectionality, and an end to white supremacist courses on Homer and Shakespeare. Colleges that launched right-wing “Western civilization” centers need to disband them. We’ll freeze grants and contracts for any suspect institution until it conforms.

Tapper: Is that legal?

Maddow: Does it matter? I’m no pearl-clutcher. We’ve got precedent out the wazoo. That’s good enough for me.

Tapper: What happens if colleges don’t comply?

Maddow: Between you and me and all your viewers, I’m kind of hoping for that. We’ll drop the hammer. If there’s any hesitation, we’ll demand that they replace their presidents—just like the Trump DOJ did with UVA president Jim Ryan in ’25. We want to see responsible leaders installed—leaders who will honor the president’s executive orders and make the necessary changes. If they don’t cooperate, institutions will lose access to Pell Grants and federal student lending. If they have a hospital, we’ll suspend their Medicaid eligibility. And we’re going to have the IRS and Attorney General Mamdani go after the relevant university leaders, board members, and public officials.

Tapper: Won’t the colleges take you to court?

Maddow: I’m sure some will. But we’ll bleed them dry. The PR will be brutal. They’ll pay a steep price, and college leaders across the country will get the message.

Tapper: That’s a lot to think about.

Maddow: And we haven’t even mentioned the president’s executive order on gender-fluid representation. K–12 schools will be required to adopt California-style safeguards for gender-fluid students. Meanwhile, we expect every NIH and NSF grant to address implications for every element of the LGBTQIA+ spectrum. Any grant that doesn’t comply is going to be yanked.

Tapper: How would that apply to research on AI, green energy, or quantum physics?

Maddow: Jake, did I not say any grant? The president believes that identity is always relevant, and that we need to ensure no one is excluded. Look, any researcher who can’t or won’t figure out how to make their research gender inclusive just isn’t someone the American people should be subsidizing.

Tapper: We haven’t touched on Hillsdale College, which famously makes a point of not accepting federal funds in any form. Can they expect to be left alone?

Maddow: Oh, Jake, you’re a card. President AOC has made clear that there’s no room in this country for institutions that promote bigotry by clinging to fascist gender norms or right-wing patriarchy. We’re asking the IRS to strip such institutions of their tax-exempt status and the DOJ to explore avenues of potential litigation.

Tapper: You’ve also announced a couple of actions relating to the new school choice tax credit and federal funding for charter schools. What’s the story?

Maddow: As far as the tax credit, per the law, Treasury Secretary Newsom is crafting rules that ensure scholarship organizations and participating schools are carefully audited, don’t discriminate, and operate in accord with federal civil rights law. Entities that are out of compliance will no longer be eligible for the program, obviously. More important, they’ll be subject to investigation and appropriate penalties.

Tapper: So . . .

Maddow: If a private school took tax credit funding and then had students read white supremacist authors like Shakespeare, or failed to accommodate nonbinary students, they’ll be hearing from us. We’ll be looking to claw taxpayer money back. Remember how Trump went after UPenn over gender policies that were legal at the time? Two can play at that game.

Tapper: How about the charter school announcement?

Maddow: Oh, we’re just adapting Trump’s $7 billion freeze from 2025. We’ll hold on to those federal charter school funds while we ensure any outlays are legal and in line with the president’s priorities.

Tapper: Will those funds be released at some point?

Maddow: We’ll see.

Tapper: All right. Secretary of Education Rachel Maddow, thanks for joining us today.

Maddow: My pleasure, Jake. It’s a dream come true. And I just wanted to offer a huge “Thanks!” to former President Trump and all his staffers who helped make it possible.

Frederick Hess is an executive editor of Education Next and the author of the blog “Old School with Rick Hess.”